Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Welcome to the public forum for the NEO. The next generation of Philips Strand Lighting's theatrical lighting control console.
dhearst
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:55 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Other
Where I Am: Faultline North, Montana - concerts, events

Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by dhearst » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:06 pm

We have a number of fixtures that include DMX channels which mix stepped (indexed) ranges and continuously variable ranges. One simple example is the Antari ICE-101 fog machine, which has a single channel like this:

0-5 Off
6-249 Volume Control (5% - 95%)
250-255 Max. Volume Output (100%)

I've used the fixture editor to create three separate items within the fixture's single attribute, where 0-5 and 250-255 are "Indexed" and 6-249 is "All". I also set up the 3-wheel and 4-wheel definitions to associate this single channel with the first wheel.

When I try to control the fog machines output with the wheel, it treats all three ranges as indexed - just jumping to the midpoints (2, 121 and 252).

Is there a way to get the wheel to adjust continuously between 6 and 249? Do I have to make the entire 0-255 range continuous to get the wheel to access all possible values for fog volume?

Thanks, David

User avatar
msearancke
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:13 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Professional Theatre
Where I Am: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by msearancke » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:09 am

Unfortunately not in this case. As you have discovered if you have indexed values then the default operation of the encoders is to jump between the indexed items.
If you hold down the shift key then the encoder will be released from the indexed operation and allow you to move through all of the values.

Sometimes it is a case of choosing the best way to setup the attribute.
For the fogger example you gave I would not bother setting index values at all. I would just let the attribute be a 0-255 control as I think this will work better. The fact that the top and bottom 5% are not variable would hardly be noticeable during normal operation.

I concede however that not all attributes are this simple and maybe we need to add a flag to the attribute item table to tell the system that when it hits that item it should act as a continuous wheel.

Martin

dhearst
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:55 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Other
Where I Am: Faultline North, Montana - concerts, events

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by dhearst » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:41 am

Martin,

Thanks. We can definitely use continuous controls in simple cases like this. I chose this example because it's simple in that way. I've encountered similar issues with a number of gobo-related parameters in the Chauvet Rogue R2 Spots. In those cases, it's much harder to argue that using fully continuous control will work well, but at the same time indexed control means jumping past sections of the range where continuous values are really important.

I'd definitely put in our vote for a way to mix indexed and continuous control for a single attribute if the development time can be justified.

David

User avatar
BobbyHarrell
Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am
Location: Livingston, NJ
Contact:

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by BobbyHarrell » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:08 pm

I personally find that setting up the Index values and then just using Shift + Encoder to work very well. That's where I would start and then let us know if that doesn't work for you and why. That will help us.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

dhearst
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:55 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Other
Where I Am: Faultline North, Montana - concerts, events

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by dhearst » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:16 pm

I can give it a shot, however, for the complex attributes, where some are Indexed and some are All, having to remember where to hold shift and where not is a burden. A smart encoder would allow you to step through those fixed index values and then allow you to run continuously through variable ranges, all the time providing feedback in the LED screen about which value you currently had set. Having to teach every new intern which parameters have unusual behavior and require Shift + Encoder is probably just the equivalent of having them not use the wheels at all.

David

dhearst
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:55 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Other
Where I Am: Faultline North, Montana - concerts, events

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by dhearst » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:42 pm

As an alternative, is there a way to split the indexed and continuous portions of a single attribute onto 2 or more different wheels?

David

User avatar
BobbyHarrell
Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am
Location: Livingston, NJ
Contact:

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by BobbyHarrell » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:53 pm

Just use the wheel alone for indexing and shift plus the wheel for continuous. The way you have it setup should work nicely.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

dhearst
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:55 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Other
Where I Am: Faultline North, Montana - concerts, events

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by dhearst » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:26 pm

I understand your suggestion. However, I'm looking for a way to avoid having the indexed range and the continuous range on the same wheel, since that will require the user to remember what parts of each wheel range are indexed and what parts are continuous.

That's why I asked if it's possible to split the ranges onto 2 or more wheels, so that the indexed range is on one wheel and the continuous range is on a separate wheel. I that possible?

User avatar
BobbyHarrell
Posts: 2280
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am
Location: Livingston, NJ
Contact:

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by BobbyHarrell » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:40 am

Not currently.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

dhearst
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:55 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Other
Where I Am: Faultline North, Montana - concerts, events

Re: Indexed and continuous ranges for single wheel property?

Post by dhearst » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:59 am

OK, thanks. For now we'll restrict ourselves to using the gobo property wheels under safe/controlled circumstances. Although we have been able to use them effectively during live shows for things like color and pan/tilt, they are too unpredictable for the gobo properties on the Rogues. We'll use the onscreen UI instead.

Post Reply