Submaster pages broken

Bob
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Local Theatre
Where I Am: Mayfield Village Ohio

Submaster pages broken

Post by Bob » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:54 pm

The current advertising says 24 pages of 24 submasters but you can't have more that 24 active at one time.
When submaster 1 (page 1 fader 1) is up and you switch to submaster 25 (page 2 fader 1) - you can't use it until you take submaster 1 down.

Switching to another page should cause the fader to switch too. When I switch pages the faders all should switch to the new page and not continue to control a submaster on a different page. If I want to take out submaster 1 I should have to go to page 1.

What we currently have are at best 24 submasters. If I have 16 specials I run by submaster and a LED unit I color mix (12 channels) live using faders I can't do it.

I should be able to set the LED unit to its own page and mix anyway I'd like.

User avatar
BobbyHarrell
Posts: 2281
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am
Location: Livingston, NJ
Contact:

Re: Submaster pages broken (not really)

Post by BobbyHarrell » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:25 pm

They are actually not broken at all. The way they work now is a fairly traditional definition of the way submaster pages work. It may not be what you want, and I understand that, but a traditional console will keep an active sub on page X after you change pages to page Y. The issue that has always dictated this behavior by the following question...what should the fader do when the page is changed. The reason why it stays on the page that it was activated on is no one wants it to snap to it's current position on the new page.

So if you are on sub page 1 and you have sub 1 at full. Then you switch to page 2. Sub 1 stays on it's page 1 assignment. If it were to automatically switch over to page 2's assignment then the channels assigned to page 2 sub 1 would snap to full. No one has ever wanted that kind of response from their faders, therefore, they keep their page 1 assignment as long as the sub is active.

I'm happy to dialogue about this but that's always been the limitation with sub pages. You do have 24 pages of assignments but if a sub is active, then it can't change pages.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

Bob
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Local Theatre
Where I Am: Mayfield Village Ohio

Re: Submaster pages broken

Post by Bob » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:30 pm

That isn't my understanding of how traditional pages work. It certainly what was expected when I ordered one, nor was it how the support person thought it should work.

That said why not leave the fader inactive until it gets reset to either it is set to zero or its current level on the new page.

So 1,1 goes to 50 percent. (Page, Fader)
Switch to page 2
Fader 1 is at 5. Sub 1 is at 5, sub 25 is inactive.
Moving fader 1 does nothing until it is reset to zero
Bring 2,1 to 80 percent
Now 1,1 is at 50 and 2,1 is at 80
Switch back to page 1
Fader 1 is inactive until it gets to 50
At 50 percent fader 1 is now active on page 1
Take fader 1 to zero.
1,1 is off but 2,1 is still on.

User avatar
BobbyHarrell
Posts: 2281
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am
Location: Livingston, NJ
Contact:

Re: Submaster pages broken

Post by BobbyHarrell » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:54 am

I don't think that's a bad scenario. Let me float it by the coding engineer and see what he says.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

Bob
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Local Theatre
Where I Am: Mayfield Village Ohio

Re: Submaster pages broken

Post by Bob » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:56 am

Any news on if this can be fixed and if so when ?

User avatar
BobbyHarrell
Posts: 2281
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am
Location: Livingston, NJ
Contact:

Re: Submaster pages broken

Post by BobbyHarrell » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:08 am

Just to clarify. This is the way that non-motorized submasters have traditionally worked. It would require a complete reworking of the sub code as it's not allowed for in the code structure. It is likely that what you need is a console with motorized subs.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

Bob
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Local Theatre
Where I Am: Mayfield Village Ohio

Re: Submaster pages broken

Post by Bob » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:59 am

So I assume it can't / won't be fixed, and I should return my unopened 250ml...

I was lead to believe it worked as I had hoped. I don't see the value in 200+ submasters if I can only use 24 at a time.

Thanks for answering the question.

User avatar
BobbyHarrell
Posts: 2281
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am
Location: Livingston, NJ
Contact:

Re: Submaster pages broken

Post by BobbyHarrell » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:42 pm

I understand what you are looking for but that's not the way that traditional non-motorized submasters work. You have 24 subs and 24 pages but the hardware is limited to what is active.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

Bob
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Local Theatre
Where I Am: Mayfield Village Ohio

Re: Submaster pages broken

Post by Bob » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:38 pm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLE4zz7 ... 3XE_svFAsQ

Will show what the cognito console does. I have very happy with my 300 series console but it's getting old but if the 250 works as intended then it has less functionality than my 10 year old 300 in terms of direct fader control. True it has the same submasters but it doesn't have the direct access to 48 channels.

Any advice on other strand consoles that might be closer to what I'm looking for...

Bob
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm
Primary Venue / Use: Local Theatre
Where I Am: Mayfield Village Ohio

Re: Submaster pages broken

Post by Bob » Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:50 pm

Two questions. Since it looks like I'll be keeping my 250.

1) what advantage is gained / or normal use with multiple pages of submasters. I seei could do a 400 scene show but why not just run 400 cues?

2) I have 30 years expirence writing industrial control software, any chance to get a copy of the code base to help add my desired functionality non disclosure of course.

Feel free to move these to other threads.

Post Reply