Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

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CarlBJr
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Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

Post by CarlBJr » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:14 am

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, so I'm gonna post here first.

I keep running into a problem on my Palette VL whereas when I'm updating an effect, weird and unexpected things happen.

Here's my scenario:
1) I make a cue list with 3 cues for LEDs all at full with different colors in each cue.
2) Go to the main cue list, and select the lights I want to run the effect.
3) Press the FX button over the encoder, run a cue list chase set the parameters...
4) I change the rate, i make it snap at 0, and i change the duration to "Active Cue" so it won't track through my show.... (which is frustrating but whatever)
5) I record it into a cue, run it and the cue works.

6) Oh no, I discover that the rate is too fast or slow and I change the rate. (or some other parameter)

Here's where the problem happens:

If I hit [Update][Update], two out of the three cues running in the effect will put the lights at 50 or 0, so essentially I'm getting an intensity effect when i never asked for one, nor is one being displayed in my effects window.

My solution has been to press [Record] instead, and just re-record over the cue, but this has its own set of problems. Like for instance if I'm running two effects, and i release one and record the cue, it releases both or all the effects that I had running.

Any ideas? Am I doing something wrong?

CBJ
Scientia Potentia Est!

Carl Barnwell Jr.
Lighting Designer & Master Electrician
Palette VL (v10.6.4)

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Re: Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

Post by gooze » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:32 am

This should change, please!
But this it how you can achieve what you want.

1. Press [LOAD][CUE]# (the cue with the effect(s) in.
2. Now select the effect you want to alter with your mouse. If there is no effects window underneath your fixtures display you have to make it visible with the view menu on the menu bar.
3. Alter the effect.
4. Press [UPDATE]

Now this could have been in a manual...

As a side note: if you are using a cuelist chase effect, you can also alter the individual cuetimes to change the effect step times, but that is course and often not what you want.
Floriaan Ganzevoort - Lighting designer
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CarlBJr
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Re: Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

Post by CarlBJr » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:47 am

gooze wrote: 1. Press [LOAD][CUE]# (the cue with the effect(s) in.
So what you're saying is that I HAVE to press [LOAD][CUE]# in order for this to work. I can not just be in a cue and edit the effects.

I'll try this and see what happens. Thanks for the tip.

Why isn't there a list of known issues and work-arounds??? Or is there one that I just don't know about.
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Carl Barnwell Jr.
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Re: Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

Post by gooze » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:13 am

... or an up-to-date manual. The tutorials are great, but they don't cover everything. Amber from Strand UK once started a quick tutorial, but somehow it ended up in a closed part of the forums. It might not be completely accurate anymore anyway.
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Re: Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

Post by CarlBJr » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:38 am

Okay, so the [LOAD][CUE] worked when there was one effect running, but when there were multiple effects, it acted very strangely. When I pressed [LOAD][CUE] it added 3 or so new effects on top of the two I already running. It appeared that when I hit update, the phantom effects went away, however I couldn't see what I was doing because of the phantom effects. If I tried to release or stop any of the phantom effects, it would stop all of the effects. Very strange.

My work around is going to have to be to only use one effect per cue if I plan on editing the cue ever. I'm so frustrated by this.

Is anyone at Horizon listening???? I can't even imagine that the manual isn't up to date. This makes me seriously angry. The alternative, however is almost just as bad.... ETC hasn't updated their manual in ages either.

At least the effects work...
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Palette VL (v10.6.4)

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Re: Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

Post by MickCrozier » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:40 am

CarlBJr wrote:Why isn't there a list of known issues and work-arounds???
You don't really expect strand to advertise faults in an expensive console do you!!!
Eventually the bugs will all be gone - certainly I've noticed when talking to people, if you mention bugs they switch off, not interested anymore - forgetting the fact that it's actually an awesome console that has a few issues at the moment.

Many bugs, and poor usability things are highlighted in this forum.
If you have some trouble try searching the forum for more info, or as you've done - start a thread and hope someone can help

With specific workarounds its complicated - it very much depends on how you want to use desk.
For instance - I would say don't use the cue list / look page chases, I think I read somewhere they are only still there for compatability with older show files (don't quote me)

Bump chases are becoming my step effects of choice, but have there own problems
The entire fx system has bugs and usage issues throughout - It appears to have fallen off the rader for the time being. Certainly for me (and a many others) the effects problems are the number 1 issue
CarlBJr wrote:it added 3 or so new effects on top of the two I already running
adding to the live state? maybe try releasing all cue lists prior to loading
CarlBJr wrote:I can't even imagine that the manual isn't up to date
New features, Operational issues fixed OR an up to date manual
Eventually it will happen, for now development is too fast
Formerly Durisian (who died peacefully of digital old age)

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Re: Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

Post by CarlBJr » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:30 am

Durisian,

Your "Bump Chases" are on a forum I can not access. Can you explain what you mean?
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Re: Re-Recording vs. Updating Effects

Post by MickCrozier » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:06 am

oops, sorry

I'm pretty sure its in the manual now (believe it or not). It's the answer to old Strand OS fx engine, its how fx in .ssf files are imported -

Basically a bump chase takes all the looks in a lookpage, and progresivly presses the bump button
It is not storable in a cue (well, it is. you just can't stop it). Instead you use macros to trigger the look that stores the effect on and off



Create a new look page - let's say 'LED chase 1'
Create your steps as looks
Set all bump actions in the lookpage to 'Timed Momentary' (this allows for better time handling when stopping the effect)
You can adjust the In and Out easily in the approriate columns (you may need to right click on the column heading to show In / Out)
Dwell can be added by setting a delay time in the out column. eg. 3/5 would be dwell for 3 then out over 5

Now you need to create a controlling look to turn the lookpage into an effect.

Create a look page called 'effects' (only if you don't want to store it in your main sub page)
With nothing selected. press [S10 - chase effects]
Select 'Bump Chase'
The effect is now running - you need to point it to LED chase 1 by clicking the first bubble and selecting 'LED chase 1' (note - don't use the encoders, looks will get stuck on if you scroll through your look pages)
[Record](minus subs) into your 'effects' lookpage - label it 'LED chase 1'

The effect is now stored ready for recall (note - you can't store bump chases in a cue as there is no way to stop them)

To add to cue - You start and stop using the BumpLook macro (although personally I go the script and use HC.LookFade so I can control fade times)

It seems harder than it really is
Formerly Durisian (who died peacefully of digital old age)

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