Submaster functionality

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TaineGilliam
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by TaineGilliam » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:58 pm

Robert,

I like the idea of being able to define Release Time. I'd even add an extra - make the defined release time the default for Shift-@. This reminds me - as much as I like ` for @ on the OLE can we make ~ the same as shift-@ ? I talking about the key that is typically to the left of the number 1 key.

Taine

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BobbyHarrell
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by BobbyHarrell » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:35 pm

I agree. This would be equivalent to the undo time on the 500 series.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

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TaineGilliam
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by TaineGilliam » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:43 pm

This is a great example of "the console should do what is right". The problem is defining "right".

The simplest case of channels not being in multiple submasters makes a good deal of sense once you decide how to handle the "over-range" issue.

Once we account for a channel being active in more than one submaster it gets more complicated. For example, sub 1 has channel 1 at 50%. sub 2 has channel 1 at 60%. Both handles are at 50%. Resulting in channel one is on at 30%. Now set channel 1 to 35% and update sub 1 - what do we do?

a) Nothing - channel 1 is part of sub 1 but is currently driven by sub 2
b) Put channel 1 at 35% in sub 1 and "jump" when we release
c) Put channel 1 at 35% in sub 1 and maintain level at release using the new record value only after sub 1 has reached zero
d) Put channel 1 at 70% in sub 1

We can add another layer by having inhibitive submasters and or a Grand Master that is not at full.

To repeat from my earlier post, I like the idea quite a bit but there are quite a few gotchas. I would strongly suggest this not be the default behavior but an option AND it should not be an option for record ONLY for update.

Taine

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MickCrozier
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by MickCrozier » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:07 pm

I think what you guys are saying is too complex, while it might be handy on the odd occasion, it may create a lot of confusion

Personally I can't see a situation where you would be updating a sub with handle at 50% would prove useful (with the suggested model) -
If the sub is used at various intensities - then updating the sub with handle at 50% may cause undesired changes to the 100% state (especially regarding the OV concept)
but
If the sub is ONLY used at 50%, it can easily be re-recorded so the handle at full gives the desired at state.


When a look has a channel updated - regardless of it's level it should refer to the max of the look.
So with 1 thru 5 recorded @ 50, and the the handle at 50
update channel 3 @ 60
When released would bring 3 to 30%

Which I believe is how it currently works.

Where 2 subs are controlling a channel - it's irrelevant, the value of the channel is used. So if a second sub puts channel 3 to 60%, then 60% is the value appllied to the max level of the updating sub

As for the 'what if the grandmaster is at 50%' - OR - 'What if an inhibit sub is at 50%' -
this a bit out there, but what if the inhibiter prevented the programmer from setting the channel to an over level.
if chan 3 is part of an inhibit sub that is set to 50%, trying to set 3 @ 75, the programmer will only set it to 50....


Cheers!
Formerly Durisian (who died peacefully of digital old age)

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RobertBell
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by RobertBell » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:18 pm

Thank you Mick (and others) - I agree with a great deal of what you said.
There are some in Asia that really want this functionality and I'm wondering if it was offered (practical/functional) on the 500. If not - where are they getting the idea that they need this functionality? I'm not being rude - I really want to know what console does this and how.
Robert Bell - Product Manager - Horizon Control Inc.

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gooze
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by gooze » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:26 am

Durisian wrote:When a look has a channel updated - regardless of it's level it should refer to the max of the look.
So with 1 thru 5 recorded @ 50, and the the handle at 50
update channel 3 @ 60
When released would bring 3 to 30%
I would think this the clearest thing to do. Except that I would like the console to fade to that level on update if hold delta's is off. That fading can happen in the release fade time (which I obviously like).
It is like go to cue on record. It should directly show what you have done, but in a smooth way.
Someone else already said. People expect the level to change. So why not immediately, but smooth.

Compulite used to do this on recording levels for subs. Once you assign your channels to the sub, it faded them down. Well that would only make sense on recording inhibitive subs. But I like the idea.
Floriaan Ganzevoort - Lighting designer
THEATERMACHINE design. production. operations.

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jgoss
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by jgoss » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:28 am

RobertBell wrote: but who thinks we should add a RELEASE TIME box in SHOW OPTIONS|GENERAL? I would also suggest that if you setup the A/B for In/Release time, this would be ignored.
I agree. Please add!
Jon Goss
Head Electrician, Ballet Opera House
Arsht Center for Performing Arts
Miami, FL

manfai
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by manfai » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:37 am

Robert,

In 500 console, we can modify the "Actived" Submaster level & update it as following procedures.

(i) Goto Blind mode for Submaster
(ii) Select the Submaster that you want, modify the content of that Sub. The lighting level will change in ratio on stage.
(iii) After adjust the lighting level, goto the Live mode. The Sub content will auto update.

In Palette console. After we modify the LOOK in blind & update it , we need to move that Look fader a little bit to activate the NEW content. So, it causes a sudden step change in level.

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TaineGilliam
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by TaineGilliam » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:45 am

As an aside would we call this "Record with Extra Magic". ;)

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RobertBell
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by RobertBell » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:17 pm

manfai wrote:(i) Goto Blind mode for Submaster
(ii) Select the Submaster that you want, modify the content of that Sub. The lighting level will change in ratio on stage.
I never understood this. To me it seems crazy that something done in blind is actually not blind. Doesn't this seem silly to anyone else?
manfai wrote:In Palette console. After we modify the LOOK in blind & update it , we need to move that Look fader a little bit to activate the NEW content. So, it causes a sudden step change in level.
This should not happen in a step - it should be that you have to fade it out then fading it in will be the new levels.
Robert Bell - Product Manager - Horizon Control Inc.

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