Submaster functionality

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BobbyHarrell
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Submaster functionality

Post by BobbyHarrell » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:55 pm

What do you want the console to do when...

1 thru 5 are recorded into submaster 1 at full, you have the sub handle live at 50% and 1 thru 5 are outputting at 50%, then you type 6 @ 30 ENTER, UPDATE SUB 1 ENTER. Currently, 6 has been stored at 30 and it will snap down to 15% when the channel is released. Should it store at 60% in the sub so that the 30% value is correct for the sub's 50% output value?

The second question is, what do you want the console to do when, you have the same scenario as above but you manually set channel 6 to Full. Should it be stored at full and snap to 50 when you release or should it actually overdrive the value and store at 200%? Since it can't output at more than 100%, it can never be higher than that. So it would say FULL and be at full as you start bringing it down until you get below 50%. If this is the case, then it would be likely that we would want an indicator that it is being overdriven.

This seems to be primarily driven by the TV folks rather than the theatre people.

Thoughts and comments please.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

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RobertBell
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by RobertBell » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:24 pm

or...
1 @ 50
2 @ 50
Rec Sub 1
Run Sub 1 to 50 (1 @ 25, 2 @ 25)
Then change 2 to Full and update live Sub 1 (live stage does not flinch)
Looking at Look 1 in blind be 1 @ 50 and 2 @ OV (over)
Then if you grabbed 1 & 2 and started to roll them down, tick by tick, 1 would roll to 49 and 2 would still be OV. Right?
Robert Bell - Product Manager - Horizon Control Inc.

BillRichards
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by BillRichards » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:52 pm

That is an interesting dilema. The concept of the sub at 50% and the channel at full is a bit arbitary, as the same could be said if you had the Sub at only 10%, would it record it at 1000% or even 1% at 10000%

Plainly this is a special case where the Sub <100%. I my view, the issue is not the level that gets updated to the sub, but more the fact that there can be a step change as a result of the Update.

It is how that is handled perhaps should be the issue.

One thought would be that it retained the output level for the life of the submaster >0% but proportionally faded with the sub as it went from current level towards 0. In this case the ntensity should some how be marked to indicate it is captured to the fader, but not treuly part of the level associated withthe fader??

Thus in this instance, the only time the channel would go fully back to the submaster wuould be when submaster = 100%

It does however raise the concept of over ranging subs. Galaxy for example had a x1.5 boost mode specifically for this kind of problem..
Bill Richards - Products and Marketing - Strand Lighting Europe Limited

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Lotos
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by Lotos » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:54 pm

Personally, I prefer to record my 'max' values... And if I happen to tap the release key while the sub I just recorded is at less than max value, I expect to see a SNAP live on stage, as the sub re-asserts itself. (I did just [Rel] all my LIVE data, after all...)

Therefore...

If I have 1 thru 5 recorded at 50 on Sub 1, sitting at exactly 50%, and I update it thus:
3 @ 25
Update Sub 1

Prior to Release, I have 1+2+4+5 sitting at 25% (Held there by Sub) and 3 @ 25% (Held there by Live Data)
[Rel] and 3 should snap to 50% of its (new) max (25%) value = 12.5%

(Curiosity: Does the Strand Engine round up or down in this case? Or does it put out a functional equiv to 12.5%?)
Alex Boxall | Venue Technician
Burlington Performing Arts Centre

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gooze
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by gooze » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:24 pm

This is one of those cases where you benefit from a better nicer smoother fading release. I agree with Lotos on this.
Floriaan Ganzevoort - Lighting designer
THEATERMACHINE design. production. operations.

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TaineGilliam
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by TaineGilliam » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:01 pm

While I can certainly see the reason behind a request for what Bobby and Robert describe, I tend to think Lotos is right. What is currently happening is what should be recorded. The real problem for the operator comes with the RELEASE not the RECORD.

Or is this a third option for Record Including Subs, Record Minus Subs, Record Scaling Subs....? Assuming the new option is added, the display of OV is problematic for further editting.

And to potentially further complicate the issue, as I'm not sitting at a console right now - what does the console currently do in the case of recording when the GM is less than full?

As for the case of 12.5%, I would think/hope it would translate to a different DMX value than 12%. - Don't make me start the ML display accuracy thread again. ;)

Taine

RobHalliday
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by RobHalliday » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:18 pm

I thought you didn't do release any more... ;-)

manfai
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by manfai » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:06 pm

The client are using the Look submasters only (NOT using Cue) for the Live Show.
Most of the time, a lot of Looks are actived on stage. Sometime they need to modify the lighting level of some particular channels within a Looks .

(i) They must change it on Live. So, they can see the change of lighting level.
(ii) The channel level must be changing slowly using the Wheel, it cannot have a step change.
(iii) After changing the lighting level, it must be update into Look. So, they can raise or lower the lighting level using the Look fader.

Any method to do these ? Thanks.

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gooze
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by gooze » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:31 pm

Setting up one of the A/B or C/D faders as assert/release time faders helps a lot!
That would make a great tip of the day! It's one of the best almost hidden functions of the console. Maybe it deserves a better name, so people actuelly know what it does if they look in the setup pages.
I am thinking about suggestions...

Also [SHIFT][UNDO] gives you "Release In Time" and let's you specify how fast the fade can happen.

Unfortunately this doesn't happen on update, but I am a strong advocate for that. No jumpy channels! It gives the desk a more controlled feel!
Floriaan Ganzevoort - Lighting designer
THEATERMACHINE design. production. operations.

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RobertBell
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Re: Submaster functionality

Post by RobertBell » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:50 pm

gooze wrote:This is one of those cases where you benefit from a better nicer smoother fading release. I agree with Lotos on this.
I don't disagree this should be done. and like you asserted. it is not a solution to the general issue raised here - but would be of general benefit.

So - not to derail this thread - but who thinks we should add a RELEASE TIME box in SHOW OPTIONS|GENERAL? This would be rather easy for us to do because we already have this code in for the A/B C/D setup (In Time and Release Time). I would also suggest that if you setup the A/B for In/Release time, this would be ignored.
Robert Bell - Product Manager - Horizon Control Inc.

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