GeniusPro Setup

User submitted ideas for how we can make the Palette and Light Palette Consoles better
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BobbyHarrell
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GeniusPro Setup

Post by BobbyHarrell » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:29 pm

I have been doing more thinking about the GeniusPro setup and believe that I now have a better understanding of what is needed and want to ask some questions so that we can adjust the sw as necessary.

Here is an excerpt of my previous posting about getting the Console Personalities to flip the appropriate switches in setup options.
GeniusPro
Personality: GP 500
Release Fixtures on Record: Off
Goto Cue on Record: Off
Default Cue Record Type: new Block Levels (basically Block Everything but don't show the hard zeros)
Default Look Record Type: Live but Record Minus Sub should be default.
Hold Delta Levels: Off

LightPalette
Personality: Palette Classic US
Release Fixtures on Record: On
Goto Cue on Record: On
Default Cue Record Type: Live
Default Look Record Type: Live but Record with Sub should be default.
Hold Delta Levels: Off
I have done more side by side testing with 500 GP and trying to get the setup right in the Palette sw.

I'm going to take the Hold Delta Levels out of the picture for the moment because that was a separate option in the 500 code called Channel Control Auto Hold: On or Off.

If I setup as defined above...

Release Fixtures on Record: Off
Goto Cue on Record: Off

Then I believe I get appropriate GP response. I can then turn Hold Delta Levels on or off as I wish. This will store the cue but not change my live levels and it will not put me in the cue so I then have what is stored but I have all levels ouputting in my live programmer. This seems to be consistant w/ 500 series GP.

If I turn on Release Fixtures on Record, then I get behavior that I would expect would elicit furrowed brows and a turned head or two as I am now a: not sitting in the cue that I have just recorded and b: the lights have now turned off. Not good.

But if I am in LP mode and I have Goto Cue on Record: On and Release Fixtures on Record: On, then I am happy as a LP operator.

Basically, I believe that Release Fixtures on Record should only be an option if you have Goto Cue on Record: On. If Goto Cue on Record is off, then you should not be able to enable Release Fixtures on Record.

Thoughts?
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

RobHalliday
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by RobHalliday » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:17 pm

My head hurts.

Rob.

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BobbyHarrell
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by BobbyHarrell » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:20 pm

Boy that's saying something for you!
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

RobHalliday
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by RobHalliday » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:29 pm

Part of my problem with all of this is that it fails the 'just does the right thing' test in quite a major way, in part just because of the language - too many things to be set, too much thinking about what they all mean (eg: goto cue on record: off; at the very least why not 'goto cue on record: yes'?)

My argument for the big 'be a GP-500-Tracking, be a GP-500-non-tracking, be an LP-500' switches is that most people don't or won't understand what all these options are and how they impact them. From the amount of faffing we're doing about this it's clear we don't really understand! We've just always had a behaviour that we like or understand (even if just because it's what we're used to rather than becuase it's the 'best').

That's why I think ALL of the sub-options should be hidden under these big switches. Let the people who get it get to them and play with them, but for the people who don't just give them the big switches (which should include 'be a Hog 2, be a gMA, be an Obsession')

None of which actually answers your question about what the right settings are. Will come back to that when my head hurts a bit less.

Rob.

GaryDouglas
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by GaryDouglas » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:30 pm

Robert and I have been discussing the idea of never releasing the selection on record.

We would clear the captured state ( it we go to the cue or reassert the current cue) but never change the selection.

Does this idea work, or is it an oversimplification if the problem?

In the old days of Palette, selecting from the command line was Additive, so release on record was necessary to get a clean slate to select from. Now the command line deselects on "implied terminator" so having the record do a full release isn't really necessary.

When creating new cues in the cue list, higher than the cue you're soaking in, the behaviour is simple. The difficulty is the behaviour when you record a cue before the cue you're sitting in, or modify the current.

In the current build, regardless of release on record/goto on record, it's necessary to re-assert the current cue if you modify a cue thats <= the current cue. This is to account for tracked-in levels, and the fact that if we don't reassert the cue, pressing release may change the live state if you forget to manually assert.

I believe doing the GP 'block & hide redundant" changes this behaviour since tracking is no longer an issue. it doesn't change the need for a reassert if we update the current cue though.

So lets give this some careful thought.

If we:

1) Implement GP "block & hide" record mode
2) Eliminate the need for Release on record (knowing that we're going to assert some times when we have to) by making assert/goto retain the selection but NOT the captured state
3) Make Genius Pro mode imply no GOTO on Record and LP mode imply Goto on record

Does this make it right?
Gary Douglas - Lead Software Developer - Pathway Connectivity - A Division of Acuity Brands Lighting Canada.

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BobbyHarrell
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by BobbyHarrell » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:52 pm

Rob...this is why we are having this conversation, so the primary user set doesn't have to.

Gary, as long as we understand that in LP mode, release fixtures on record occurs. This occurs with an assert.

I agree with what you are saying Gary. Now let's go the next step...selective store. When in LP mode, I bring up a channel and update a non-live cue, the channel goes away. When I did this on 500 series, the channel stayed. (Oh...in Cue Only mdoe so that it doesn't track) It incorrectly sets the color to the tracked color but it should stay there and should stay red but without a delta. That way I can continue to work in secrecy from others watching the stage and have the ability of complete control as to when the stage changes.

Is this muddy enough for everyone?
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

BillRichards
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by BillRichards » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:06 pm

Bobby,

In principle I think your summary of the switch settings on Genius Pro are correct.

I also agree with Rob's comment about the myriad of options and a big switch setting.

In actual fact there is precedence from the 500 series code, where switching between Genius Pro and Light Palette changed a number of options automagically for you on the User and Show setup.

Taking this to it's logical extreem, then what would want then is a "learn my options" and save them as a different name. That is probably going too far, but by opening this discussion we expose ourselves to the spectre of such request...
Bill Richards - Products and Marketing - Strand Lighting Europe Limited

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BobbyHarrell
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by BobbyHarrell » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:15 pm

Understood but I have said this before and I'll say it again. I want a simple set of rules with a simple set of options that make fundamental changes to the default settings. That's fundamentally what the LP / GP bolshoi switch was all about. It's different ideology depending on how you think about the desk. The 500 series did it. Why shouldn't we? The argument is that there are so many setup options that some users can't make heads or tails of it. To me, flipping the big switch with the console personalities gives most 500 series users what they want while keeping the setup options available, let's power users get in there and muck around. It also allows me and you as console support help fix problems that people get into.

If we are going to initiate a big switch approach, and I am an advocate of it, then I think we need an indicator on the screen.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

GaryDouglas
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by GaryDouglas » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:17 pm

In selective store, what do you mean by it "didn't go away" on the 500? Are you talking about selection or the captured/changed level?

In this new world of a non-releasing assert, if the level tracked into the live cue, the state of the channel would change to non-delta and non-captured, but would remain selected. The level wouldn't change -- only the state (it would now show the tracking color and not be filled-in-red.

If the level didn't track into the current cue the state wouldn't change.

This behaviour also implies that for selective records, Goto on Record is ignored -- completely -- even in LP mode. Is this correct?

As for your comment Bill, not a bad idea, but in this discussion I'm looking to remove the Release on record option for all "Setup Names".
Gary Douglas - Lead Software Developer - Pathway Connectivity - A Division of Acuity Brands Lighting Canada.

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BobbyHarrell
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Re: GeniusPro Setup

Post by BobbyHarrell » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:59 pm

In 500 series, on a selective store, the channel stayed right where it is. On Palette, it goes away. I need it to stay.

There are 2 objectives here,
1. Getting rid of release fixtures on record where it is not applicable.
2. Getting console personalities to set these options appropriately.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

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