Patch Comments from an email

User submitted ideas for how we can make the Palette and Light Palette Consoles better
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AmberTomlin
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Patch Comments from an email

Post by AmberTomlin » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:11 am

Hi Guys , Im posting Oovis who's the Chief Electrician at Novello Theatre reply to our earlier comments via email.

Input would be most welcome :)
Hi Amber,

In reply to the response;

OK, you're keeping the 300/500 feel for Patch by Output but you're also creating two almost identical windows which don't work in the same way in your 'new' software. You've allowed me to click and type in one window but deliberately not allowed me to do the same in the other. There's no real reason or logic for this and will also confuse anyone not approaching from scratch, I feel.

The main drag with using Patch By Fixture is there is no way of knowing the next available output, thus;

I'm in Patch By Fixture and I click on the screen to patch 1 as a Martin MAC600 Mode 4. I have no idea how many outputs I've used as I don't know the channel count off the top of my head and there's no display to tell me the next available output, so I go to Patch By Output to see the next available. Finding it I click on the screen as I did before and find I can't patch that way.. Hmm..

I don't want this to sound like a rant, sorry.

Oovis
Amber Tomlin

Key Account Manager - UK
Philips Entertainment

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JohnGrimshaw
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by JohnGrimshaw » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:17 pm

In the BETA development phase, I wrote out the Big suggestion list. This issue was item 38.

My preferred solutions are:
- Patch Fixture at next - get the console work out where the next space is that fits all your fixtures typed in the command line in a single block (you would have to start from a completely unpatched show).
- Status display shows the DMX range of the last fixtures patched "10x Martin Mac 2000 Performance - Patched to 1.1 to 1.238"
...and for more entertainment industry trivia and useless facts, just ask:
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RobertBell
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by RobertBell » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:51 pm

:added: FS523 & 524
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BobbyHarrell
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by BobbyHarrell » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:52 pm

I agree with your suggestion of a preferred solution John but you actually can patch in output mode.

If I am in Patch By Fixture and I patch a VL1000AS to channel 1 addressed to output 1. Now I go into Patch By Output to see what's next available, I have used 1 thru 27. I type...

Output 28 @ Fixture 2 S4(Fixture Type) Alt S8 (Vari*Lite) Alt S9 (VL1000AS) Enter.

Use PowerPatch if you want to do a range or fixtures or do that in Patch by Fixture mode also.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

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gooze
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by gooze » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:19 am

The main concern is that you have two patch screens (By output and By fixture/channel) that have columns with the same name (Type and settings) but clicking in these columns gives a different result. Either give these columns a diffrent name (not good, because it is confusing) or make them editable.
I see the problem with both "Type" and "Settings" but let's think of a solution here:

Type
In patch by fixture/channel:
Click on Type. You can choose different sorts of fixtures. That makes sense.
In patch by output you should be able to do the same:
Click on Type. You can choose different sorts of fixtures. This is the first output of that fixture. If there is nothing patched in the range of outputs that fixture needs, there is no problem. If there is the warning: Unpatch fixtures appears.
Maybe to make things clearer there could be an indentation after the first output:
A.1 (1)_________1_______Dimmer
A.2 (2)_________2_______VL2416 - Intensity
  • A.3 (3)___2_______VL2416 - Pan Hi
    A.4 (4)___2_______VL2416 - Pan Lo
    A.5 (5)___2_______VL2416 - Tilt Hi
Settings
In patch by output:
If you click on settings you can set your output settings for that specific output. This works if you are working with a set of lights patched to the same fixture, but on dimmers that behave differently (having a different curve or age). It also works if you want to apply a different colourprofile to one specific colourwheel.
You would expect that if you'd want to invert the pan, you could do the same. Apply an 'invert' profile to the pan-parameter. Of course this is difficult with functions of the light that consist of two parameters (16 bit parameters like pan/tilt/index etc.), but I think the software could do the math for you in this case.
Maybe in patch by output you could get a pop-up similar to the one you get with the cue-properties wich is the same for all the outputs of one movinglight.

VL2416 properties for fixture 2
  • [S1] Label [________________________]

    [S2] Dimmerprofile_[Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S4] Pan Hi_________[Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S5] Pan Lo_________[Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S6] Tilt Hi_________ [Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S7] Tilt Lo_________ [Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S8] Cyan__________ [Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S9] Yellow_________[Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S10] Magenta______[Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S11] Zoom_________[Linear___________] (dropdownmenu)
    [S12] More
Also, if you want to apply a wacky curve to a whole set of lights (or to all the dimmers of a theatre) it should also be possible. So in fact you should be able to that from the same Settings-field but now in patch by fixture. That way you can change the profile for a range of outputs, but it is much easier, because the outputs are all the same logical group: the same fixture/channel.
Floriaan Ganzevoort - Lighting designer
THEATERMACHINE design. production. operations.

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gooze
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by gooze » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:43 pm

BobbyHarrell wrote:Output 28 @ Fixture 2 S4(Fixture Type) Alt S8 (Vari*Lite) Alt S9 (VL1000AS) Enter.
Are you saying Alt S8 is the same as M8? Wow, could that be made tip of the day? On a CP I still don't get used to the different lay-out of the M-keys, opposed to the S-keys. This could be a nice workaround.
Floriaan Ganzevoort - Lighting designer
THEATERMACHINE design. production. operations.

GaryDouglas
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by GaryDouglas » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:03 am

Just as an FYI: I'll be adding a status message (bottom right) that gives you the next available DMX channel. This will help a great deal in both patch screens. :added: FS524

It should will show the lowest available DMX channel, and the number of channels available -- something like this

--------------Patch By Output--------------------
Output 305
Patched to Fixture: 75 (RGB)
DMX: Lowest 60(15) Before 300(1) After 450(30)

This shows that the lowest channels available are at DMX 60 -- and there are 15 free channels.
From the last output patched, there are 30 channels available at 450 (After 305) , and 1 channel at 300 (Before 305).

Comments?
Gary Douglas - Lead Software Developer - Pathway Connectivity - A Division of Acuity Brands Lighting Canada.

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JohnGrimshaw
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by JohnGrimshaw » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:36 am

This this "Include" or "exclude" dimmers patched 1 to 1?

Presumably, this would count 1 to 1 patched dimmers as "using" those slots. Another reason to get people to start with a blank patch.

I would prefer something like:

--------------Patch By Output--------------------
Fixture Patched: 75 (RGB)
DMX Output Staring at: 305
DMX Output Ending at: 307

and multiple fixtures...
--------------Patch By Output--------------------
Fixture Patched: 75/80 (RGB)
DMX Output Staring at: 305
DMX Output Ending at: 322

If you want to add the next/last available line after that, then fine by me!
...and for more entertainment industry trivia and useless facts, just ask:
John Grimshaw
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Stage Fast Pty Ltd

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gooze
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by gooze » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:01 am

Gary, how do you get 'output 305' in the first line of your statusarea? That gives the info of the last output/fixture patched as John asks isn't it?

I think it might be more clear to split things up, also to acomodate another request, to have a more clear distinction between the patch by output screen and the patch by Chan./Fixture screen.
So for the status area of Patch By Output: (Righthand lower corner)

  • --------------Patch By Output--------------------
    Output Patched: 305/322
    Fixture(s) Staring at: 75 (RGB)
    Fixture(s) Ending at: 80 (RGB)


For the status area of Patch By Channel/Fixture:

  • --------Patch By Channel/Fixture--------------
    Fixture Patched: 75/80 (RGB)
    DMX Output Staring at: 305
    DMX Output Ending at: 322


And finaly underneath Channel Alloctaion (in the setup-area of the screen):
  • DMX free
    • Lowest 60(15)
      Before current 300(1)
      After current 450(30)
Floriaan Ganzevoort - Lighting designer
THEATERMACHINE design. production. operations.

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BobbyHarrell
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Re: Patch Comments from an email

Post by BobbyHarrell » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:05 am

And yes...ALT and the S keys get you the M keys. We need this for the OLE.
Bobby Harrell - Product Specialist
Philips Entertainment - Strand Lighting

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