mailing list?

Questions on Palette and Light Palette operation and features
richlambe
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mailing list?

Post by richlambe » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:28 am

Wouldn't it be simple to send out e-mails with a list of ongoing bugs instead of letting us all find out for ourselves repeatedly? It could also include helpful work-arounds. The support here is great but during a tech you dont exactly have lots of time to be searching a forum.
Thanks
Rich
Richard Lambert
The Gate Theatre
Classic 32
10.6.2

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rschwimmer
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Re: mailing list?

Post by rschwimmer » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:16 am

richlambe wrote:Wouldn't it be simple to send out e-mails with a list of ongoing bugs instead of letting us all find out for ourselves repeatedly? It could also include helpful work-arounds. The support here is great but during a tech you dont exactly have lots of time to be searching a forum.
Thanks
Rich

Just because it is a bug for one person, doesn't always mean it is going to be a bug for everyone. So therefore, if we were to send out an email to everyone, then people start getting more and more stressed out thinking the bug is going to happen to them.

I personally believe that this site is a great way for everyone that should be finding the bugs, do. We all share our experiences, and report them here. The response might not be as quick RIGHT NOW because most of Horizon is out of the office on other projects. They will all be back next week from what I remember.

And if you do come across a bug that you want to see if you can find out if there is a fix, you could call us in the tech support office for Strand Lighting.

Thanks
Randy Schwimmer - Technical Support - Consoles - Philips Strand Lighting

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willarki
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Re: mailing list?

Post by willarki » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:44 pm

But what about a link to the Flyspray tracker. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to modify pages such that only description and summary information is displayed.
What I need are programmable, limited distance photons. That'll show the set designer that illuminators are superior!

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gooze
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Re: mailing list?

Post by gooze » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:05 am

Many software house include a list of known issues/bugs in their release notes. I personally think it is not up to the user to find out if it is a known bug.
A duplicate post on the forums is better, because it indicates how many people a really having trouble with a bug and how much urgency there is to fix it.

Workarounds can vary from user to user, so I think the forums are a great way to share. The only disadvantage is that you probably just want a list next to your desk as an appendix to the manual...
Maybe you can download the forums as a webarchive in safari/firefox and have them searchable on a computer next to your desk or even on your desk.
Floriaan Ganzevoort - Lighting designer
THEATERMACHINE design. production. operations.

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RobertBell
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Re: mailing list?

Post by RobertBell » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:39 pm

willarki wrote:But what about a link to the Flyspray tracker. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to modify pages such that only description and summary information is displayed.
Does anybody have the link to the ETC bug tracker? ;)
Robert Bell - Product Manager - Horizon Control Inc.

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TaineGilliam
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Re: mailing list?

Post by TaineGilliam » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:59 pm

Sure Robert. The compare and contrast would probably make us feel better, right.

CarlBJr
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Re: mailing list?

Post by CarlBJr » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:23 am

rschwimmer wrote:Just because it is a bug for one person, doesn't always mean it is going to be a bug for everyone. So therefore, if we were to send out an email to everyone, then people start getting more and more stressed out thinking the bug is going to happen to them.
Randy, you should seriously reconsider your position on this subject. As a customer and user of your product, it is insulting to say that I'm just going to stress out if I find out there is a possible bug. I'm not sure how long it has been since you've been behind a tech table (especially with one you didn't know inside and out), but i can tell you that there is infinitely more stress and frustration when I run into a bug while there are 60 actors, 10 musicians and 20 crew people waiting for me to advance to the next cue, but I can't because the board is behaving unexpectedly and I think that I've done something wrong so I keep trying. I am even more stressed and frustrated when I go home that night, or weeks later to check the forum and find out that there was a simple work around for a problem I didn't know existed, and it's been posted for the past two months.

Basically, yes I will stress if I see that theres a possible bug, especially if it is a bug in a command that I'm planning to use for a show. However, if I know about it.... then I can research how to deal with it before I go into tech.

I believe Robert mentioned ETC's non-existent flytracker... Its true they don't have one; but they do have a list of known issues (with some workarounds) that prints with their release notes for every new version. 'And it is often significantly longer than the actual list of things they have fixed. You know what, I don't run into those bugs during tech with their light boards.... because I KNOW ABOUT THEM!!!!!! 'And that makes for a happier tech, and more satisfaction with the product. Poke fun all you want, but you could learn a thing or two.
Scientia Potentia Est!

Carl Barnwell Jr.
Lighting Designer & Master Electrician
Palette VL (v10.6.4)

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JohnGrimshaw
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Re: mailing list?

Post by JohnGrimshaw » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:07 pm

I would be extremely surprised if ETC did not have a bug tracker. Of course they do, and of course it is hidden fron users - becuase fundamentally they are in this game as a business, and any business that allows access to the flaws of its product is NOT going to be in business very long.

The mere fact that this website exists, and you CAN talk about bugs here is very risky for Strand, but I think they have the balance right. If you want to keep up to date on bugs, then you have to come here regularly. If you own a Palette, and DON'T have this page as one of your DAILY links, then that is a mistake.

That said, I can really understand and sympathise with Carl'BLr's position - though a less of a "flame" post might have been nicer.

The actual bugtracker for the Palette is likely to be nonsensical to us, and full of development jargon and other crap he would not understand, and not be interested in.
...and for more entertainment industry trivia and useless facts, just ask:
John Grimshaw
Managing Director
Stage Fast Pty Ltd

CarlBJr
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Re: mailing list?

Post by CarlBJr » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:23 am

John, agree'd. I apologize for my flame post.

Let me explain my position a little bit more. I did not pick my light board. It was picked for me by the company that built our new Arts Center. In school settings this is sometimes the case, the actual TD, Designers, and teachers have very little input as to what will be installed. Strand won the bid, and it didn't matter that I wanted another light board, I got a Strand. Having never worked on a Strand console before, I was cautious at first. Basically I had two weeks to learn the board before I went into tech.

The online videos were helpful, but coming brand new to the board and the Strand Universe was really easy in terms of writting and modifying simple cues. However, lets be honest.... a much lesser board can run simple cues. When I got into all of the things that were supposed to flex the boards muscles, I started running into bugs hand over foot. I still can't run effects reliably. 10.6.2 (which is supposed to be a stable version) crashed my board 5 times during tech. the frustrating thing is because the Manual is not updated, I never knew and don't know if my syntax is wrong or if its an actual bug.

I still believe my frustrations are valid. I would like a list of bugs so I can avoid them. The truth is, the console software is truly powerful but it is sold to the customer as a finished product when it is still very much in development. It would be helpful if I knew about the things that were not perfect yet so I could avoid them or work around them. Knowing before hand is essential. Especially to new people.
JohnGrimshaw wrote: The mere fact that this website exists, and you CAN talk about bugs here is very risky for Strand, but I think they have the balance right. If you want to keep up to date on bugs, then you have to come here regularly. If you own a Palette, and DON'T have this page as one of your DAILY links, then that is a mistake.
I apologize if this is "Flamey" but I think it is far more risky for Strand/Horizon to put out a product with bugs, and no literature stating what the known bugs are. Why should I have to search for bugs in a product that they sold me, then search for answers and workarounds. They should be responsible for getting the information to me, not the other way around.

Ultimately this idea of selling a beta/unfinished product is at fault. Thanks Microsoft and your weekly updates... :-)
Scientia Potentia Est!

Carl Barnwell Jr.
Lighting Designer & Master Electrician
Palette VL (v10.6.4)

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MickCrozier
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Re: mailing list?

Post by MickCrozier » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:52 am

CarlBJr wrote:I had two weeks to learn the board before I went into tech.
IMO with this console - a few hours training is a must to get you off the ground.
Boards sold in melbourne are now coming with a few hours training included
CarlBJr wrote:but it is sold to the customer as a finished product when it is still very much in development.
Depends who sells it (I ran a demo a few weeks ago, which was hilarious after I hit minor bug after minor bug. The best part was when I told the guy to upgrade it 10.6.4 - which killed the fader panel... sorry Darren :cry: ), and how much home work you did prior to purchase (obviously you had no choice in this case)
Its always good to get hold of a demo console before making any comitment.
I knew it was buggy when I bought it (not AS buggy though) things have greatly improved since mid last year, and will continue to do so
CarlBJr wrote:Ultimately this idea of selling a beta/unfinished product is at fault. Thanks Microsoft and your weekly updates... :-)
I think it was only 2-3 months ago MS released an update to XP that bricked a few peoples computers, some rootkit thing i think.
It aint cool, but it happens to the big boys too. Fix one thing - another breaks.

I do get frustrated when an ongoing bug persists through many updates. For instance OLE demo mode fails - started happening somewhere in 10.6.2xxx beta series, with 10.6.3 and 4 being released to public with it still failing.
Or a critical bug is not fixed very quickly (ie the missing keystrokes bug)
Formerly Durisian (who died peacefully of digital old age)

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